Amino acids & heavy metals results

Hi

Finally the results came by fax today from Germany, i scanned the results and i found that Ahmad has a defiency in many things that are really related to blood formation, liver and growth.
He has defiency in:
Cysteine
vitamin B6 - Vitamin A ( don't know howcome although he takes multivitamin daily )
glutathion (complete)
glutathion (reduced)
Coenzyme Q 10 ( low normal )

What really scares me is that he has a lot of copper , how did he get it, the normal range is between 40 and 170 and his result was 213.6 !!!
From a quick search on the net i found that copper aids iron absorption in the gut & damges the liver , how can i get rid of it???

I can see that his iron too is 122 (48-152), so is this harmful as ferritin?

I also notices that although we have been taking carnitine regularly for two years, he is just in the low normal level which is 0.5 ( normal 0.5 - 1.6 )

I don't know if the thalassemia is causing this defiency OR this deficency is worsening the Hb level since most of them are related to blood formation


In two days i will meet the doctor (biological treatment ) to give me his feedback on these results.

what do you think

manal

Manal.

I think the copper test should be verified by a second test. It is possible that it is a false reading. Other possibilities for high serum copper are given below. It is far more common for thalassemics to have copper deficiency, so a second test should be done to verify these results if he hasn't recently had an infection etc, as listed below.

http://www.aruplab.com/guides/ug/tests/0020096.jsp  If you look at the table at this site, you will see that for a male under 18 years, the high end of normal for copper is 190, so his level is not severely high.

Serum copper may be elevated with infection, inflammation, stress, copper supplementation, oral contraceptives, and pregnancy.  Concentrations are 2-3 times normal in the third trimester of pregnancy.  Copper may be lowered with corticosteroids, zinc, malnutrition, and malabsorption.



Note:
Elevated results from noncertified trace element-free tubes may be due to contamination.  Elevated concentrations of trace elements in serum should be confirmed with a second specimen collected in a trace element-free tube, such as royal blue sterile tube (no additive).

His zinc level is on the low side of normal. This is just one possibility but is worth a mention. There is a zinc/vitamin A connection in some vitamin A deficiencies. (I have noted this in myself). Zinc is also implicated in growth retardation. A high nutrient diet has been shown to increase growth in thalassemics, although with children, this can be difficult because they can be such picky eaters.

His iron level is not bad at all, especially considering he is intermedia and intermedias often have excess iron absorption in the gut. Being in the normal range is good news.

Manal,

Please be strong. I hope that these issues get settled easily.

I pray Almighty that he gets well soon

Manal,

I hope that your doctor has a good explanation for all of these results.  I also hope that appropriate levels can be reached easily - I'm sure that will increase his hg as well.  I wish little Ahmad the best.  My prayers are with you 

Sharmin 

Sajid and Sharmin , thanks alot for your support and wishes


1- Andy, i will do another copper test as you mentioned, but concerning the defiencies of B6, Vitamin A, and low zinc and low carnitine.... i am giving him the right dose for his age daily, should i increase the dose or what should i be doing i really can not depend on the food only, its impossible

2- We are all usually concerned with the ferritin levels, should other iron tests like serum iron , saturation, TIBC, transferrin,... have the same concern??

3-  Does being a thal is the reason for such depletion, meaning that no matter  he takes supplements he will always have defiency or these can be elevated and thus affecting the HB levels positivly???

Thanks
manal

Manal,

Thalassemia causes great stress on the body. I have mentioned this in previous posts concerning vitamin E and folic acid. Because of this, the vast majority of thals find themselves deficient in many vitamins and minerals. Thals cannot go by the standard dosage for non thals. I don not advocate mega doses of B vitamins but increasing the dose beyond what a non thal needs is prudent. I take Puritan's B-100 complex. It gives a high dose of the important B vitamins without going overboard like some B supplements do. Increasing his zinc supplement may help his vitamin A levels. Is he taking a vitamin A supplement, and if so, what is he taking?

The serum ferritin test is the most common test done to test iron levels. Adding the full iron studies should be done if the ferritin level raises any concern, but they are not routinely done as it adds to the costs. The full iron studies panel is actually of more use in diagnosing iron deficiency. If his ferritin levels stay within range, the added tests are probably not needed.

It should always be remembered that thals are under great internal stresses which deplete nutrients. These nutrients do need to be replaced and normal levels should be maintained to increase quality of life along with health.

I am very happy to see his vitamin D level at such a good level. A daily dose of sunshine is very helpful in maintaining proper levels, and makes a huge difference in energy levels.

Thanks Andy for your reply


Unfortunatly the serum copper testi is not done here in Egypt and i was astonished to know that even all the vitamins except B12 are not done too. So to check it again i have to send it again to Germany

As for Vitamin A, he used to take the kiddie pharmaton then i switched for the yummi bears
( vitamin A 2500 I.U which is 50% of the daily value ) from a year ago because the first one does not have any minerals like the yummi bears. Last year the hematologist used to give him an extra pill (3 days a week) of Vitamin A&E. Each capsule had vitamin A 30000 I.U and vitamin E 70mg.  At that time i was so afraid from too much vitamin A as it is fat soluble, so i requested only to have the Vitamin E pill alone (400mg). So do you think i should be giving him the Vitamin A&E pill again with the yummi bears as his vitamin A level is too far below normal??

manal

Manal

I wish you get your answers soon.  Let us know the opinion of the doctor.  Wish Ahmad the best. 

My prayers are with you and Ahmad.
Jade

Manal,

I also hope that you get your answers soon and that you receive some reassurance that everything is okay.    All the best to little Ahmad. 

Sharmin

Manal,

I think you can safely double that dose of vitamin A to 5000 IU daily. However, adding a zinc supplement might also increase the A. I would try zinc first. 20-25 mg daily.

Thank you Jade and Sharmin and definetly i will update you once i meet the doctor


Thanks Andy i will increase the dose. One thing came up to my mind, could the reason for these deficencies  (aside from fast depletion due to thal ) is that the body of thals can not ''see'' these vitamins or i can say insensitive to them and therefore does not have the ability to fully absoarb them.  I remember that once we talked about growth hormones and though they could be in normal levels but thals bodies are insensitive to them, so could it be the same in Vitamins??


One more thing i read about Coenzyme Q 10 ( as Ahmad is in the low normal ) and found very interesting facts that could be beneficial to all thal

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Coenzyme-Q10.html
http://faculty.washington.edu/ely/coenzq10.html
http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.asp?Id=534

As an antioxidant, it appears to help correct dietary deficiency of vitamin E in animal models, protects against the toxic effects of adriamycin, protects against low oxygen states which results in large amounts of free radical formation and reduce oxidative distress that often results from surgery.

http://www.thenutritionreporter.com/coenzymeq10.html


Sajid, this could be interesting...

Coenzyme Q10 and diabetes - Coenzyme Q10 supplements may improve heart health and blood sugar and help manage high cholesterol and high blood pressure in individuals with diabetes. Coenzyme Q10 has antioxidant activity in mitochondria and cellular membranes, protecting against peroxidation of lipid membranes. Coenzyme Q10 inhibits the oxidation of LDL-cholesterol. LDL-cholesterol oxidation is believed to play a significant role in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis. People with type 2 (adult onset) diabetes have been found to have significantly lower blood levels of coenzyme Q10 compared with healthy people. People with diabetes cannot adequately process carbohydrates. Coenzyme Q10, or CoQ10, is needed for normal carbohydrate metabolism. Coenzyme Q10 is an antioxidant that fights free-radical damage and is a blood oxygenator.

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/coenzyme-Q10.php

manal

Thanks for the info Manal,

My Diab. Doctor first wrote Type-I diabetes in my diagnosis but on the next visit changed it to "Insulin Dependent Diabetes" I guess he changed his mind after the pill trial

Hi

Finally i met the doctor, he commented that all what Ahmad has defiency in causes anemia to normal persons and that is why he thinks that these affect the thal negatively. In addition to the high depletion of these vitamins, minerals,..... the doctor added that sometimes the thal patient body due to imbalnce of many amino acids and enzymes does not undergo the complete metabolism process and therefore can not make use of the vitamins taken.

He explained for example that when the he takes a vitamin A pill, the body needs to breakdown it to the simplest form in order to absoarb it and make use of it, but since the metabolism process may not be complete, the body can not make use of it leading to defiency. He didn't agree to increase his dose as he said that his body will not use them and will be stored as toxins in the liver.

After consulting with the hospital in Germany, he is going to give Ahmad all the substances that he lacks in the form of  injections and solutions in the simlpest form, so the body does not need to metabolize them i.e the body will just make use of what is given without the need to break them down.

He said that this correction is not related to thal but correcting these body levels will reflect positivly on thal and make the body recognize the biological treatment he has been taking .

When i asked him if Ahmad will maintain normal levels after this correction or not, he answered that this may happen but not a gurantee and the only way to know is to make the heavy metals and amino acids test annually. ( which is a super expensive test )

He also added that copper is very tricky as the deficency in copper leads to anemia by inhibiting the formation of red bloods cells in the first place  and the increase in copper (Ahmad's case) leads to the quick breakdown of red blood cells after formation(hemolysis) also leading to anemia.

One of the things he will add to Ahmad is the coenzyme Q 10  on which he strongly insisted on its importance. He also commented that the glutathion (complete) &glutathion (reduced) are very important in the blood formation in the liver and all the liver functions and that they work as coenzymes in other enzymes related to growth.

he said that we will do another test to check his levels again. The injections and the solutions will arrive here by the 20th of July. The Hospital of germany suggested that i bring Ahmad there in order to assist his body (in addition to his treatment) by different methods like using bioresonance, energy..... and other techniques which i really forgot their names but actually we can't for financial reasons.

Nothing i can do but to wait and see but i am really so depressed as now i am dealing with these defiencies in addition to thal. thal is more than enough for me especially that i really believe that these defiencies may be worsening his thal and i am afraid that it could be a permenant problem

manal
 

Hi Manal,

I sympathize you. Thal. Inter. is indeed very tricky to tackle. I know you are doing the best you can to make his body make it's own blood.

I pray that you succeed in your struggle and make Ahmed avoid pain as much as possible.

Thank you Sajid for your concern and support. I am praying for that too
manal