Led Zeppelin - Kashmir

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Offline §ãJ¡Ð ساجد

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2006, 01:22:35 PM »
Do politics have to be brought up in every thread?   :(

Let's keep the peace around here, ok?  Pretty please?  :flirt

Ma'am tell that to Mr. Poirot and Vazirani who started it all.
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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2006, 08:52:07 PM »
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And as far as governments, none of us have anything to brag about....we the people just aren't being considered by politicians anywhere.

At last something we agree on .......

WOW Poirot. Somebody finally said something you agree to. Must be a historic day!
 :rotfl
Andy

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Offline Danielle

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2006, 11:54:49 PM »
Ma'am tell that to Mr. Poirot and Vazirani who started it all.

I wasn't directing that to anyone in particular, Sajid.  It doesn't matter who started it.  If someone starts it, and someone else replies in a derogatory manner, both parties are guilty, in my opinion.   :dunno

I just want everyone to get along.  If you guys aren't capable of getting along, then just simply don't talk to one another.  There's no point in going back and forth.  Just agree to disagree and end it.   :now

 :rotfl  (that little guy banging his fist made me laugh  :biggrin)

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2006, 01:32:42 AM »
It applies to all. Kinda getting tired of hearing he started it or she started it. We're supposedly adults here. If you make a statement, stand by it. Don't go blaming someone else for it. And this applies to everyone.

Once again, can I remind people that I doubt we have any terrorists or supporters of terrorism on our board. The violence everywhere in the world is extremely alarming. Is there some reason we need to foment hatred on our board? If anyone can say yes, then you don't belong here.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2006, 04:31:59 AM »
WOW Poirot. Somebody finally said something you agree to. Must be a historic day!
 :rotfl

Given that I had to drag you screaming and kicking to this point, you bet it is a historical day!!!

 :rotfl

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2006, 04:50:29 AM »
Once again, can I remind people that I doubt we have any terrorists or supporters of terrorism on our board.

Absolutely correct. So, there is no reason for anyone to become defensive, right?  :rotfl

Hmmmm ......

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2006, 05:04:17 AM »
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So, there is no reason for anyone to become defensive, right?

You would think so. On any of the many sides of some of these issues. One thing I don't think anyone will dispute is that Britain certainly left a mess of a legacy in that area of the world. Almost seems as though it was intentional...did I say almost?  Hmmm...reminds of another world hot spot...the mideast.

Wait, I think we did agree before; on the harm that religions have done to this world. Sad thing is, it's not getting any better.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2006, 05:18:27 AM »
One thing I don't think anyone will dispute is that Britain certainly left a mess of a legacy in that area of the world. Almost seems as though it was intentional...did I say almost?

The three most intractable regional problems in the world:

1. Northern Ireland
2. Kashmir
3. Palestine/Israel

The common factor among all three: The English!!!! You can almost see the design.

BTW, not the British, but the English!!! I don't think the poor Scots or Welsh caused even a fraction of the trouble the English caused!!!!
No wonder, the scots decided to get their own parliament!!

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2006, 05:32:52 AM »
Wait, I think we did agree before; on the harm that religions have done to this world. Sad thing is, it's not getting any better.

Yes, you have to wonder when humanity will see through organised religions. Karl Marx was right about one thing, at least!

It is ironic in a way, that after the collapse of "godless" communist USSR, all the major global conflicts have had religion as their cause.

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2006, 05:47:46 AM »
It doesn't matter who started it.  If someone starts it, and someone else replies in a derogatory manner, both parties are guilty, in my opinion.   :dunno

A Daniel(le) come to judgement!!! Prithee do tell, o danielle, how come thee be so young in years, yet so steeped in wisdom.

 :rotfl

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Offline Danielle

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2006, 07:29:17 AM »
A Daniel(le) come to judgement!!! Prithee do tell, o danielle, how come thee be so young in years, yet so steeped in wisdom.
 :rotfl

Are you making fun of me, Mister?   :waiting

 :rotfl   :wink

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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2006, 02:04:07 PM »
Are you making fun of me, Mister?   :waiting

Do you think I would even dare to take such liberties with you? After all, we now know you shoot from the hip .........  :rotfl

Heh

Poirot


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Offline Poirot

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Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2006, 02:52:45 PM »
I know this is not really relevant to Thal, but it is relevant to the world we live in today, in general, and sometimes our lives, in particular. I debated about this a lot before posting (with myself and a few friends), but in the end thought it important enough to put my thoughts to paper (or html, as the case may be!), given the current strife that we are living through. This is not to take pot shots at anyone or any group, but just to provide some food for thought to those who are interested. This may not be the absolutely right forum for this post, but we have discussed this before and I thought it was an appropriate continuation.

And, Sajid, although I am using your post as a starting off point, this is not a criticism of you and your beliefs, in any way. I sincerely mean that.

When will you understand that these terrorists are not Muslims and they don't deserve to be called Muslims. The word Muslim is derived from the word Islam which means peace and thus Muslim is one from whom everyone remains in peace. These terrorists are not following the teachings of the Holy Prophet and The Holy Quran and it is a simple rule: "One who does not follow the teachings of the Holy Prophet and The Holy Quran is not a Muslim"
You can't just blame Muslims/Pakistanis for the ill doing of a particular group that have nothing to do with Islam.

Sajid makes a very valid point above, that in the current environment we run the risk of tarring an entire group for the acitivity of a few deluded individuals. It also takes a lot of courage to make the above point, when these highly visible individuals are saying it with bombs and guns. So, major hat tip to Sajid for that.

But, if I look at what is happening globally .... I only hear aggressive, threatening statements from "Islamic" groups (Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, Jaish, Lashkar, etc) or governments (Iran, Syria) being broadcast both by global and Arabic media. Countries with belief systems different to these groups are threatened, literally, on a daily basis. What I don't hear is the moderate voice. I don't hear moderate Islamic countries and groups stand up to these groups and say .... ENOUGH. Maybe they condemn the terror but their voices are being drowned out by the fringe elements. Or maybe, their efforts are disjointed. Or, maybe they are just too scared to protest. Or maybe, heart of hearts, they believe in the radical cause.

Whatever be the cause, if the moderate groups (who I believe are still the majority today) don't stand up to the radicals, then that IS bad news for the entire community, because then the entire community risks being tarred by the same brush. And, this rebuttal has to happen at an institutional level. Because it is the radical institutions that are causing the mayhem, moderate institutions have to stand up to them, or risk being taken over by the radicals. And, once the moderate institutions are taken over, then all moderate voices eventually get stilled.

This has happened once before, in recent history, with dramatic consequences for a significant number of people - the rise of Adolf Hitler and WWII. One by one (between 1930-1938), German institutions capitulated to the rising power of Hitler and the Nazis. They could have stopped him at multiple points, but did not, either due to fear, intoxication from his vision or his sloth. Until, he ruled all of Germany, until finally there was no Germany, but a Nazi one. At the same time, people like Chamberlain treated his rise with tolerance, and sanctioned many of his pre-WWII conquests in a bid to keep peace. Chamberlain did this when Germany had not fully rearmed and could have been stopped easily. Everyone knows the fall out.

But, there are two consequences I would highlight: the German people carried a sense of shame for the Nazi atrocities for many decades (even today, gatherings at the Berlin Stadium were compared to the Nazi marches) and the English people were destituted (because the cost of beating Germany later was too high) for their earlier inaction.

I post this today because I see stunning parallels betwen what happened in 1930-38 and today. This is a huge challenge for the Islamic community globally in how they deal with their radicals. It is a huge challenge for the global comity of nations and the lone superpower, too, in how we deal with this situation (hint: invading Iraq is not the answer!).

We, in India, live directly on one of the fault lines, so this is of paramount importance to me. I apologise if I have bored the pants off everyone else.

Poirot
« Last Edit: August 20, 2006, 02:59:39 PM by Poirot »

Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2006, 05:55:24 PM »
 Hi Piorot

Fantastic analysis and a equally fantastic peice of writing and so very correct.

I love it and is making me see things, which I might not have noticed.. do keep the mind and pen flowing . :smile2

shikha

Re: Led Zeppelin - Kashmir
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2006, 10:53:57 PM »
I had resented myself so many times not to involve, Can we somehow stop these hate messages from Mr. Poirot (sometimes sugarcoated though).
Regards.

 

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