Questions for Andy

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Offline gwftan

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Questions for Andy
« on: September 08, 2011, 04:04:41 PM »
Hi Andy,

I have some questions that had been bothering me for months.  I wanted to post this earlier but I was quite busy doing “research” and still cannot satisfy myself with the findings, some readings was so extensive that I don’t quite understand them at all especially genetics so I wanted to ask for your opinion.
Sometimes back I asked you about my alpha thal.  I told you that my daughter’s DNA testing reviewed that she has a Codon 59 deletion.  However, my haematologist would not take that for my alpha thal condition and instead ordered another DNA analysis last month.  She even upgraded my thal status to Hbh!

Last month when my Hb dropped to 8, my haematologist ran hb electrophoresis.  I managed to copy the important notes(after the junior doctor let me copy it).  I only jot down important notes.
HbA                  94.3
HbF                  3.8
HBA2/E(I think E?, my paper is not clear)                                   1.9
H inclusion                               positive
SEAH0E       α3.7

2006 DNA analysis suggested No αSEA deletion detected.  Other mutation not available then.
2007 DNA analysis for α thal showed α3.7 carrier state only
2009  Took another sample.  I don’t know this result.  My daughter’s DNA analysis detects Codon 59 deletion.
I don’t have all the test result for all the DNA testing.  It was kept in the file in the thal clinic. I only have bits and pieces that the doctor wrote to request for more testing which I copied down for own reference.

My question, if I’m having SEA deletion, - α3.7 deletion and a Codon 59 mutation, does that put it both my parents are also alpha thal as well?  Then one of them must have SEA deletion and another with α-3.7 deletion.  So Codon 59 comes from which deletion?  That means all this while I’m HbH?  The Codon 59 mutation, can it come from a non-thal, like my husband or a spontaneous mutation?  My haematologist is more concerned to know what type of thal I’m but I’m more concerned to know why is the hemolysis and how to get rid of my excess iron and what future lies for me.

Tracing back my ancestry, I am actually convinced my father is a thal too because I still remember my uncle’s wife(my father’s side) has a hydrop fetalis when I was still young.  My mum had few miscarriages and the last baby she had had growth restriction, ie the fetus was not growing for few weeks.  She had it terminated because she’s unwilling to think of raising a retarded child as the doctor warned the child may be retarded.  I have a cousin(mum’s side) is a slow learner(as my uncle called him), could he be having ATR-16 syndrome, he actually had a bit of look like down syndrome child.  How do one gets a ATR-16 syndrome child?  Does it pass down from one thal parent or both parents has to be thal?  After reading so many articles, I’m actually considering whether I should have or should not have anymore children, there are so many risks involved, Codon 59, ATR-16.

For my children how do they inherit my thal? Do they inherit it by what my parents are having if I’m a HbH?  I’m thinking of bringing them for DNA testing when they are older to get the specific gene mutation/deletions when technology are more advanced.  Now its good to know they are alpha thal but they would need to know what specific type when they are setting up their family.

As for iron overload, I’m thinking of getting IP6 overseas.  I’ve just asked my brother to find out whether he can make the purchases in Singapore as he is working there.  He kept telling me supplements in Singapore is very expensive, I should try get it elsewhere like Australia nevertheless he will help me to look for it during his free time.  Do you know whether it is easy to get it over the counter in Singapore or Australia?  I may need to ask my cousin to get it in Australia when she came back for holiday for Christmas. 

My haematologist is not quite willing to solve my iron problem with Ferritin 1014ng/mL and said with Hb 8, she won’t start any chelation programme.  Whilst on the last visit, the junior doctor keep me in KIV said my Ferritin is still “OK”.  I’m more worried about organ damage as my family especially my mum’s side has a history of diabetes, cancer, hypertension, etc etc.  I asked my haematologist about green tea she told me it can remove some only which is to me not good enough since I’m probably absorbing more iron from the gut.  I asked her whether there’s other natural way to remove the iron, she told me only chelators!

I also had a 1 pack RBC transfusion last month, not that I wanted it but because I’m travelling overseas.  I’m worried about my Hb dropping in overseas(which i think had dropped as I just came back) and also partly I wanted to experience the difference between pre-transfusion and post-transfusion.  After the transfusion, I was actually rather disappointed with the outcome as I was feeling so sleepy all the time although I feel less tired limbs when climbing stairs.  However, it took a few days for the sleepiness to go away.  I took a blood test with a private doctor together with other tests and Hb was 9.8.  I was doubting this actually because the lab that the doctor sent for the test is the one which tested my Hb Electropheris normal. 

Two weeks post transfusional, I had an appointment with the thal clinic, my hb registers 8.9 which was a disappointment.  I asked the junior doctor why the hb was so low and he said its probably because the RBC that I had may have shorter life span.  I am actually worried on my unstable Hb this year, whether I have other underlying problems.   

Do you know whether detoxing the liver and gallbladder works for thal?  I thought the liver and gallbladder must be overworked with iron overload.  I’ve gone for a liver and gallbladder talk and the speaker suggested detox method by Dr. Hulda Clark to get rid of gallstones.  I was wondering whether there are any significant change by using the method as thals would have problems with liver and gallbladder stones and for general health.   I pose the question to him about getting rid of iron overload, he can’t answer me, then I found out he’s not a nutritionist, a teacher by profession.

Sorry if I asked too many questions because most of the time the doctors cannot suggest to me a better answer.   They either tell me I’m ok although I glimpsed my report was “not ok to me with so many highlight” and wait for my symptoms to get worse probably, by then I’m probably “confirmed” to be having the problem which I’m trying to avoid here as I remembered reading in Genetic and Clinical Features of Hemoglobin H Disease in Chinese Patients findings iron overload that the liver was moderately overload in MRI with ferritin of 304 while doctors here are still relying on blood test to make a conclusive diagnosis.

Thank you.

Regards,
Gracia

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2011, 11:20:18 PM »
What is IP6? 

I will see if it is available at my local chemist, in Melbourne, Australia.

Regards

Catherine

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2011, 12:25:07 AM »
IP6 is phytic acid or Inositol Hexaphosphate. It is derived from the bran of grains like rice. It is a mild iron chelator and a good antioxidant and has been the subject of much study in regards to preventing cancer because of its iron inhibiting property. Cancer cannot spread unless it has a good iron supply, so IP6 has attracted research interest. It can be used as a supplement to chelation but is not strong enough to replace chelators. One of the best qualities about IP6 is that it can reach areas that chelators like Exjade and desferal have trouble reaching, specifically the brain.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 12:14:09 AM »
Hi Andy

Do you think it would be possible to buy over counter in Australia.  My local chemist had not heard of it but said maybe to try health food shop.  Will try another chemist using names phytic acid and inositol hexaphosphate this weekend.

regards
Catherine


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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 10:18:08 AM »
I have a product by the name of Nature's Way Mega B

Ingrediants as follows:

Thiamine nitrate (B1) 30mg
Riboflavine (B2) 15mg
Nicotinamide (B3) 100mg
Calcium Pantothenate (B5) 60mg
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride(B6) 25mg
Equiv to Pyridoxine 20.56 mg
Cyanocobalamin (B12)  60mcg
Ascorbic acid (Vit C) 25mg
Biotin (Vit H) 50mcg
Folic Acid (B9) 200mcg
Insitol 25mg
Choline Bitartrale 25mg
Magnesium (as oxide) 60mg
Zinc (as Sulphate) 8mg

No added sucrose, glucose, lactose, gluten, wheat, corn, starch or any flavours or preservatives.

Is this IP-6.

Regards

Catherine


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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 05:03:16 PM »
Hi Catherine,

IP6 can be seen at the links below. It is related to the B vitamins, but inositol alone is a different compound.

http://www.puritan.com/antioxidants-040/ip-6-inositol-hexaphosphate-005745?searchterm=ip6&rdcnt=1

http://www.vitacost.com/ip6-inositol-hexaphosphate
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 07:42:17 PM »
Hi Gracie,

Thank you for your patience. I needed to get a bit of time to try and answer.

Some background information may help. There are 4 alpha globin genes, consisting of two pairs of two alpha globin genes. Each parents passes on one of these pairs of genes to their children. If you look at the reference pics at http://www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=280 and
http://www.thalassemiapatientsandfriends.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=279
you can see the various possible outcomes when both parents are carriers. If you have two different alpha mutations, you got them from each parent. If only one deletion or mutation is present, you got it from only one parent. In your case, there have been results that differ from each other. I think the only solution is new testing by DNA sequencing at a lab where they understand alpha mutations. I think your current doctor can advise you on this. I think this is essential because the codon 59 deletion may be present and if so, this would explain much about your condition including the unstable red blood cells that break down so quickly. If you have both codon 59 and SEA then both parents are carriers. It also means that you have a condition that while technically is not HbH, it manifests similar to HbH due to the codon 59 deletion which is unpredictable in effect, so you find an occasional need for transfusions. I know your ferritin is not dangerously high but because HbH is similar to thal intermedia, the same circumstances can occur where true iron load cannot be determined by ferritin testing alone, and a liver MRI scan would be much more informative and tell you if chelation intervention is needed. I think this may become necessary as more transfusions are taken. Talk to your doctor to see if an MRI of the liver would be advised based on the number of transfusions you have received and any iron supplements you may have taken. Iron overload in thal intermedia is well established, even when no transfusions have been taken, so it is a real concern. I am not a big fan of these detox regimens and think that for the most part they are a waste of money. They will not remove iron. I prefer the mild herb milk thistle. See http://www.naturalnews.com/033524_milk_thistle_liver_protection.html
Milk thistle protects the organs and also helps in tissue regeneration in the liver. Nigella is another herb with excellent protective and healing properties.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline gwftan

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2011, 07:43:43 AM »
Dear Andy, 

Thank you for for clearing some of my doubts.  My hematologist has asked for blood sample last month for more DNA test but I don't know what type of test she's running and the test had to be sent to IMR(I think, they ran a lot of DNA testings).  The only disadvantage here is I think she's more familiar in beta thal than alpha because there are not many alpha under follow up.  I don't normally see her and she's not around most of the time so sometimes the questions I ask to the other doctors do not satisfy me especially on treatment on my iron overload(technically not high, don't manifest many health problems compared to other beta thal major).  So the only other alternative is to combat my overload myself.  I'm not sure whether there are MRI scan if I ask for it because the other day, the doctor only gave me forms for LFT.  I know LFT itself don't give true answer to the overload in the liver.

I asked my dad to ask his doctor for DNA testing when he went for his asthma clinic from one of the government hospital but the doctor said they don't run these test.  My mum told me she will ask her doctor to check her RBC as it has been a long time since her last check.  Both of them are living in one of the town in Sarawak and DNA test are not accessible for them, so I'm merely guessing what type they are having and what precautions they should take.  Both of them must have been carriers but manifest other health problems that had been discussed in this forum though they don't look anaemic. 

At the moment, I take a whole concoction of vitamins including multi-vit(no iron), folic acid, B-Co, Chlorophyll(is this essential?), Vitamin E.  Thanks for suggesting the Milk Thistle and Nigella.  I will go to the pharmacy to look for it.  I’m not a fan of detox but the talk on gallbladder stones flushing sounds good, though some people suggests its a total scam.  I also read somewhere in the forum to avoid honey?  I recently started drinking apple cider vinegar with a tablespoon of honey for health, and was wondering whether a tablespoon of honey is ok or I should scrap this regime??

Actually something crop on my mind and I had been reading a while about molasses and to avoid it as its high in iron.  My aunty gave me some water kefir grains to brew with mineral water last year.  It uses jaggery powder, which is not  sweet(alternatively molasses can be used as well, if there are no jaggery powder available) and was stored in an air-tight container for 4-7 days, producing an enzyme, supposed to be good for health.  You can check it out at http://zoevblog.com/2010/03/17/what-is-water-kefir-and-how-to-make-it/ but mine is not so complicated without the dried fruits.  I had been drinking this for a while end of last year(2 months) and the last hb check in December 2010 showed the highest 9.8 whereas I was normally somewhere between 8.5-9.3 for the past few years.  I stopped drinking it earlier this year because I was a bit worried about consuming too much sugar as it was sweet especially if molasses is used!  I was wondering whether it does help with maintaining hb as I was thinking of starting the brew again... 

Thanks again for answering my questions Andy.  You have been most helpful.  Since joining this forum, I find a lot of information about thal.  Sometimes I find it equally hard to shop around these days reading labels(at times), avoiding certain food and more difficult to cook for the family.  It seems that I’m only one with iron overload, and I should not deprive others from food that I avoid so I still serve it on the table but I take less. 

Have a good day.

Regards,
Gracia

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2011, 11:45:24 AM »
I have found the following to products at health foods shops in Melbourne.

GNC Inositol 500 100 tables AUD$28.95.

http://www.gnclivewell.com.au/product.asp?id=316&t=Inositol+500mg+GNC+100T&cid=2

Musashi Inositol oral powder 1g/1g oral AUD$14.40

http://naturalhealthdirect.com.au/health/musashi-18/musashi-amino-singles-122/musashi-inositol-75g-92.html

Regards

Catherine

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 08:22:32 PM »
They are both inositol, not inositol hexaphosphate. Please see http://www.puritanspride.com.au/ip-6-inositol-hexaphosphate-sku-005745.html/
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2011, 11:06:45 PM »
Thanks Andy, I don't think would be able to buy this one in over the counter in Australia as it as not appear to have a AUST number on the packaging.

When I spoke to the Health Shop owner they advised that lot of the products were made in the USA and were not approved for sale in Australia.

Regards

Catherine

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 12:11:10 AM »
Hi Catherine,

The website is Puritan's Australian site, so you should be able to order online there. It may be that the pics used are from the US website. I have used Puritan for decades for price and quality. I did see IP6 on another Australian site but the price was much higher.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 06:49:05 PM »
Hi Gracia,

I see no reason to avoid honey unless there is a diabetes problem, and even then a spoonful wouldn't cause harm. Honey from China may contain toxins so it is advised to avoid it, unless the source is known. Molasses does contain iron, so it's wise to avoid when iron is a concern. Jaggery has minimal iron so it should be OK. Chlorophyll has some value and is similar to hemoglobin in structure, but I don't think it's essential. If you find positive results, continue to take it.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 11:08:07 PM »
Hi Andy & Gracia

In answer to the question whether IP6 can be brought easy over the counter in Australia, I believe the answer is no.

I have tried a number of chemists and health foods shops

Regards

Catherine

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Offline CatherineM

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Re: Questions for Andy
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2011, 11:25:55 PM »
I would also like to thank Andy for all his patience with my lack of understanding of how important every little word is a supplement ingredient description.

Your patience is amazing.

Catherine

 

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