High calcium

.. I saw the recommended ratio of 2:1. However, I did also find sites that made the assertion that since magnesium is not as readily absorbed as calcium, that the correct ratio would be 1:1. Also, as Bigg is pointing out, without adequate vitamin D, these minerals will not be adequately absorbed.

I don't think it's good when different sites give this kind of ratio, without any explanation, why there is this ratio and not the other, and also without any explanation how to adjust it. It is not good to use this ratio without any adjustment - for example thals need more calcium and more magnesium than ordinary people, but how does this change the ratio? How much more of any particular microelement?

Calcium, magnesium and potassium are for sure very difficult to balance (I mean really balance, not just make blood results look good) - just to mention a few things that have influence:
- calcium: PTH, calcitonin, vitamin D, sodium intake (when you eat a lot of sodium - ordinary salt - it has direct on calcium level, this method is used in fighting hypercalcemia, they give salt solution), balance with phosphorus ....
- magnesium: misleading blood test results (with calcium it is different - there is the method to measure bone density), absorbability issues...
- sodium ...
- potassium ...

For now it is impossible to take into account all the factora and the ratio is kind of useless.
Maybe if somebody knew how to take all of this into account, we would know how to treat some cases of resistant ostheoporosis, instead of poisoning people with not very nice drugs or even strontium.
Unfortunetely I myself do not know.

After my own experience, I would be very hesitant to cut vitamin D intake without a test to show that the level is in range.

Oh, no I was tested in the meantime - my vitamin D level was 36 - so it is in normal range anyway. But since then I was not tested, because this last test confirmed entirely the number of vitamin D IUs I have to take to raise blood level to a particular level. Such calculations (as decribed in previous post) may be helpful in assessing when you have to do the next blood test and if the dose you get is sufficient. One more thing to know about vitamin D is that 400 IUs are used up daily. So these 400 IUs have to be    
subtracted from the dose. I did not want to make the things more complicated in the last example, but when I got 500 IUs a day, this really meant 500 - 400 = 100 IUs a day, so supplementation would have to last for 5 000 days = 14 years. This explains, why small doses are completely uneffective. Of course daily usage may be only 300 IUs, but you get the idea.

I am a little afraid about getting too high vitamin D level due to my hypercalcemia and problems that are described as a consequences of high vitamin D - mainly calcification of arteries and other things. How can this be counteracted?


B.

One more link about magnesium deficiency and thalassemia:
http://bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/reprint/90/3/1283

And one more thought crossed my mind, why the body tries to keep blood magnesium at constant level within normal range - because it tries to protect erythrocytes. So the serum blood magnesium can be at normal level but other tissues may be deficient. But the serum magnesium will be on the low end of normal range for example, and this already may make a big difference in somebody with thalassemia.
I don't know if what I'm saying has any sense, but it's just a thought.

B.

Hi Andy,

The vitamin D was tested. The doctors showed particular worry over the high vitamin D levels. At the appointment we were only concerned about the osteoporosis and didn't bother to the calcium and Viit D figures. However, we will be repeating the Vit D test in two months time and at that time decision will be made to start the supplement again. Thanks for reminding us.

Maha,

Hi Andy
Hassan gets 375 IU of vit D from supplements daily. We stay in the top floor of the building and we have the sun shining brightly only behind the windows, which is opened only during winters.

I thought (quote above) that Hassan was atleast getting 375IU of vit D and Osteocare which includes vit D as well. Anyways, good thing is that you are aware of the situation and handling it.

Regards

Hi canadian family
I added the vit D he was getting from osteocare and multivitamins, hence the 375 IU. 75IU from osteocare and 300IU from multivitamins.

maha

Hi
Hassan`s calcium has always been on the higher normal range or slightly above. This past two months I had discontinued osteocare. Probably because I had started him on IP-6 and it has calcium and magnesium added. This time his calcium levels were normal , in the middle of the range. His doc and hema always refuses to check vit D, both have the same answer `trust my eyes`. I did ask his doc if we could give him osteocare, he said Hassan didn`t require it as his calcium is normal. Should I begin to give him osteocare again?

maha

Hi Maha,

If I were you I will not stop giving him Osteocare. The Calcium and Magnesium in IP6 is added to replace these minerals as IP6 does chelates some calcium and magnesium from the body (IP6 is a chelating agent). The body needs constant supply of calcium for healthy bones. I did asked some experts and it is best to cover the calcium requirement through natural food (milk, cheese, chick peas, broccoli etc). However, it is necessary sometimes to take extra supplement for cases like thalassemia.

The calcium usually found in the form of tablets is calcium carbonate (the molecule is bigger and harder to absorb in the body). The absorption rate of calcium carbonate is approx 50% in the body. What it means that if you are taking 900mg everyday, only approx 450mg is absorbed by the body. Yes, it is true that osteocare contains extra minerals to increase the absorption rate but it is nowhere near the absorption of calcium from natural food (80%-90% absorption rate for natural food calcium).

Osteocare at this time is the best calcium supplement I have seen. I found another supplement in liquid form (calcium ion formula) where you put drops on tip of your tongue and leave it there for a minute or so (it is claimed that the absorption rate is 60% to 70%).

Also, vitamin D is equally important for calcium absorption and it is important to check vitamin D levels on a regular basis. ``Trust your eyes`` formula is not good enough as the vitamin D level in his blood. I would stress with doctors to check vitamin D levels at least if not three than every six months.

Hi CF
I know IP-6 chelates other minerals also. But as per one of your previous posts ( dunno which one but it was surely you) each molecule of calcium chelated by IP-6 is replaced with 3 molecules of calcium. The doctor never refuses us any test other than the vit D and the occasional glare he gives us each time we request the calcium test. I hope he agrees this time to check Hassan`s vit D. I will also continue with the osteocare.

Is the vit D test kind of expensive or does it require more blood sample than the rest because I cannot think of any other reason for the docs refusal.

thankyou
maha

Hi Maha,

You are absolutely right about calcium is replaced by 3 molecule comapred to one molecule of IP6. However, a lot depends on which brand you are using and how much calcium and magnesium in the IP6 capsule. In any case, the replacement of calcium is not enough, in my opinion, to warrant the stop of calcium supplement. The thal body needs atleast 500mg of calcium regularly to keep the bones healthy. Do you think the IP6 is providing that much calcium after deduction in one capsule, I think it hardly gives any percentage of the required calcium.

I don't think vitamin D test is expensive at all. It can be done as part of the regular check up.

With transfusing thals, parathyroid function is often the cause of high or low calcium levels in the body and is unrelated to calcium intake. The parathyroid is very sensitive to iron load, so this too, needs to be considered.

Good Catch Andy.

Hi CF
I use IP6 by Jarrow Formulas. It has 85mg calcium and 30mg of magnesium. It definitely does not provide the daily calcium requirement but will surely replace the Ca and Mg chelated by it . It is specifically mentioned that it chelates reactive iron.

maha

In this discussion of vitamin D and calcuim no one appears to have mentioned skin color.

Main source of D is sunlight, light skin colour less amount of sunlight required to obtain amount required from sunlight.

I live a Australia and we have had very effective programs to get people to put on hats, sunscreen and sunglasses as we have the highest skin cancer rates in the world.

Tasmania the most southern state of Australia had  a policy that primary school children should wear hats all round.  They had to rethink the policy due to vitamin d problems resulting for migrant children (children of Africian background).

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcpdf.nsf/ByPDF/Vitamin_D/$File/Vitamin_D.pdf

Hi Andy,
    am  taking  osteocare tablet  daily as   it  has  vit D3.does  it  fulfill vit d  requirement   or  need  to  take  separately??please  give  information  about  tests which  r  necessary.
komal