Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance

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Offline khayes7

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Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« on: June 25, 2016, 10:46:37 AM »
Hi Andy,

It's been a few years since I was on here. I've been my own science experiment during that time, trying to get a handle on this and be as functional as possible. I've learned some things that might be helpful here and have questions you probably have insights on. Feel free to move this to an existing thread if it's a fit or change the subject. There are so many, I couldn't decide the right one, lol.

I think the problem in thalassemia (for me, anyway) is that it throws things off balance physiologically enough that symptoms can lead you down all kinds of rabbit trails looking for answers, from food intolerance to cardiac issues to hormone imbalance. Also, symptoms come and go and seem to have varying and inconsistent triggers. My symptoms are shortness of breath (often with tingling skin, like I'm going to faint), random numbness in my hands, arms, feet, legs, lower digestive discomfort/changes, extreme fatigue and weakness, exercise intolerance, inability to think/process, depression, neck pain, skin changes.

I've spent tons of money trying to mitigate individual symptoms, but none of it ultimately helped because it wasn't fixing the underlying problem. I've also had tons of testing done for specific symptoms (allergy, cardiac, hormone, thyroid, etc.) At one point I had a battery of tests done by a wholistic MD which showed my system was indeed jacked up, and she put me on a regimen of supplements that I needed a schedule to follow and cost over $400 per month. This was in addition to hormone therapy (pellets, bioidentical pills, creams, etc.) All of it helped some - for a little while. None of it helped consistently long term.

This is what I've learned after all the blood, saliva, and urine tests: I'm pretty sure it all comes down to oxidative stress (and subsequent ph imbalance). My tests showed my lactic acid levels are always high, like I've run a marathon (lack of oxygen to muscles, organs, etc.) and my antioxidant levels are really low (because antioxidants are in such high demand, they're getting used up as fast as you put them in). Oxidative stress in thalassemia is caused by unpaired hemoglobins wandering around, weak red blood cells breaking down too fast, and the constant demand to make more red blood cells too soon. Other things that cause oxidative stress for everyone are exercise, bad food/alcohol choices, food and environmental toxins, lack of sleep, emotional strain, viruses and other illness, etc. Thals' bodies are often already so stressed that any of those additional stresses throws us over the edge. I didn't really start getting hit with symptoms until my late 20's. I realize now how hard my body was working to keep me from noticing, using up all its stored antioxidants and nutrients to keep things in working order. Once I started feeling symptoms, there was nothing left to pull from and I was always on the brink of disaster. At first it seemed random; an emotional stress like a family member in the hospital would leave me physically unable to function, or exercising for three days would leave me on the couch for three weeks. Doing my best to put all the information together, I've made some changes that seem to significantly improve my body's strength and ability to function consistently day in and day out.

What I've done:
After learning eating animal products causes more oxidative stress, I've adopted a mostly whole food, plant-based diet; lots of vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, whole grains. Basically trying to get as many antioxidants in as I can everyday. (FYI, antioxidants in supplement form have been shown to be counterproductive. I tried them and now stay away from most supplements.) This has helped a lot! I feel like I've gotten my life back! I can exercise everyday and work everyday, and am for the most part not hijacked by emotional upsets. From what I've read, plant-based eating is okay for most people. Some have a problem synthesizing l-carnitine and might need something added. So far, I'm good.

The supplement I'm finding I can't go without is magnesium, and I'm not sure about calcium. I think I'll supplement carefully with it because calcium is pulled from the bones to maintain ph balance in the body during stress. I'd hoped I could give up all supplements, but I recently started experiencing the same old disabling shortness of breath I used to have. In a panic I high-tailed it to the nearest Vitamin Shoppe and got some magnesium. After taking about 2,000 mg broken up over four hours, I could breath again. (I don't know how you're supposed to dose it; I just know when I feel that bad magnesium always works a miracle. I break it up assuming your body can only absorb so much at a time, but I don't really know.)

Now we're to my question/confusion:
Magnesium is essential for all kinds of processes and reactions in the body. One of the things it does is help regulate nitric oxide. I've seen studies about magnesium supplementation in thalassemia and low nitric oxide in thalassemia (I know you have one posted on the site). I assumed the shortness of breath had something to do with low nitric oxide, so I added a pre-workout supplement that had l-arginine, l-citrulline, and l-carnitine. The first day I felt great. The next day and until I stopped it three days later, I felt awful! The shortness of breath returned in full force, but I also started having joint pain in my hips, knees, and hands. So I researched to find some connection and found high nitric oxide is associated with inflammation and high l-arginine also causes joint inflammation. My digestive system also went haywire and I got a white film on my tongue. So I'm pretty sure my ph balance was off. I know l-arginine is associated with digestive problems, but I don't know if that's because it interferes with ph or if those are two separate issues.

At this point I'm guessing this is something like the antioxidants: foods are good, supplements are bad. Maybe the magnesium helps form nitric oxide, but also keeps it in check, and the direct l-arginine is too much? I know you've recommended those added aminos, but that was awhile back. Have you learned anything more or new since then?

Thanks so much for all your research and input!







« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 11:03:32 AM by khayes7 »
~Katrina

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Offline khayes7

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Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2016, 10:51:44 AM »
Oh, I forgot to say I also take B-12. That's important if anyone reads this and decides to try plant-based eating. Sorry:)
~Katrina

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Offline khayes7

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Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2016, 03:42:09 PM »
Hmm, well. . .

Can anyone verify if the shortness if breath, which I think is a common thal symptom is related to nitric oxide? (presumeably low?)

And has anyone else experienced negative reactions to nitric oxide boosting amino acids?
~Katrina

Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 03:34:15 AM »
How interesting about the magnesium. I've been in that EXACT situation and had to run to find some powdered pure cocoa dark chocolate I had lying around. After searching for quick magnesium sources.

Dumped it all into a glass of water and choked it all down (didn't mix well haha) and shortly thereafter I came good.

Don't forget if you're eating a lot of fruit and veg, you may be getting those amino's and high nitrates as it is. Not to say don't supp, but you definitely can overdo the supps if you're going crazy - especially the arginine which can cause breakouts etc etc.

IMO, just pick one - of the most readily available form of it - the NO. Like Citrulline. It apparently raises Arginine internally even more than... Arginine itself. Pycnogenol and AAKG are others to try if you like. Pomegranate juice is good.

Omega-3 Fatty Acids and Vitamin D are others that strangely can affect NO a lot.

Foods are always better than supps where possible, but sometimes (stuff like Vit D) you just need to be supplementing as there's no other way.

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Offline khayes7

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Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 08:28:31 AM »
Thanks! Yeah, I think I get a lot with food. I think the added aminos were too much. From what I read, magnesium helps in getting/converting the aminos from food. So I think that's all I needed. Interesting about cocoa powder! I've thought about adding it to my morning smoothie. Maybe I will!
~Katrina

Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 03:22:04 PM »
Khayes7

your symptoms sound just like mine.. i have been dealing with all these symptoms for the past 2 years since giving birth.. i feel like the energy was sucked out of me... shortness of breath with minimal exercise, i think i eat pretty healthy considering i gave up sugar (substituted with coconut sugar), add extra virgin coconut oil to almost every food i make, more whole based foods like salads, fruits, nuts..i have foggy brain all the time.. my joints aches for a while and the aching disappears..my blood work shows no red flags except my Hemoglobin issues... vitamin D is normal, Vitamin B-12 on lower end of normal so taking supplement for that now.. have been taking Iron due to low saturation levels..not to mention medication for hypothyrodism it's not severe though.. i want my energy back..i want to be able to  get thru the day without feeling like i am gonna pass out..some days i literally feel i am going to fall out any second.. i have been having those days more and more.. i am going to the doctor in a few days

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 02:06:29 AM »
khayes7,

What was your total daily dose of the three L's? And I have heard from others that they have a sensitivity and can only tolerate L-citrulline.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline khayes7

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Re: Shortness of breath - Nitric Oxide imbalance
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 01:05:59 AM »
It was 1500mg each of l-citrulline and l-arginine and 750mg of l-carnitinte. That's very interesting!

I read something about two different types of nitric oxide related to l-arginine. I'm sorry I didn't read thoroughly enough yet to describe. But I got a feeling too much l-arginine can cause an imbalance possibly?

PKP1713

I'm so sorry you're struggling! I remember well the frustration of trying to keep my body functional enough to keep up with three small children - and often failing. This site was an enormous help to me when I finally accepted my health problems were thalassemia related. At that point I realized my doctors weren't knowledgeable enough to help me and I needed to educate myself as much as possible. So many people here have done a lot of the groundwork already. Even if the same things don't help everyone, there's usually something that will springboard to being able to look into something new I didn't know. I don't know how long you've been on here, but I'm sure you'll find help.

Nutrition advise can be frustrating because it seems there's always conflicting information. So I throw out there what has helped me, and not to say it will be the best thing for everyone. Having said that, I used to consume a lot of coconut oil, but I don't use it at all now. My cholesterol went up, and knowing how low nitric oxide is stressful to blood vessels, I just thought I didn't need to add another stress to blood flow. I eat a lot of walnuts now because they have a high level of omega-3 fatty acid (I think the highest of all nuts and seeds) and have been shown in studies to have very high antioxidant effects. I think generally it's important to have a fat source with your fruits and vegetables (and herbs and spices) because studies show greater absorption of nutrients when fat is present, even just a little bit. Because I choose to stay away from most oils now, I add chia seeds or ground flaxseeds to meals, use tahini (or any nut butter) for dressings, and always have trail mix around as a ready snack.
~Katrina

 

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