Longer vs Shorter SubQ needles

Has anyone found that using a longer SubQ needle is actually better than using a shorter one?  I've been using a longer one lately, and I haven't been getting the HUGE lumps that I normally get.  I mean, I still get lumps, but they aren't that painful or itchy, and they are much smaller.   

When I use the shorter needles, the Desferal usually ends up leaking out or causing a lump to accumulate under the skin, that turns red and painful.   

Has this happened to anyone else, or am I just losing my mind?   

Hi Danielle,
Miaki said the same thing at our last chat. She said she gets less of a bump because the needle goes in deeper.

Great!  At least I know I'm not crazy now!   

I mean, it's obvious to me that when you go deeper into the subq tissue, there would be less accumulating at the surface, but sometimes I think I'm going TOO deep into the tissue and hitting the muscle, where it shouldn't be.  So, I was wondering what others thought about it.   

Thanks, Andy.   :smile2

I'm now using the usual butterfly needle. I do get bumps with it. I have also tried the thalaset (thumb tack kind) which I do not use that often because it costs like US$3 per needle. Those that I have are samples. When I started using them, I thought they were good because the bumps are not as big and painful. But when I extended the time used, e.g. letting the desferal run over 24 hrs, I find the bumps bigger and more painful so I assumed that the bumps are due to the amount / period of time the desferal is infused.
So now when I use the desferal over a long period of time, I am prepared to get bumps.

Hi guys,

Just reading some of the posts here and as mentioned by Andy, I had said that using the longer subq butterfly needle is better because you dont get those nasty lumps that are red, hot and inflamed.
 
@ Eponine (or anybody else) , try using 20mls of water with your normal required amount of Desferal and over the same period of time ie: 10 hours infusion pump. But use the longer butterfly needle.

More water = less concentrated desferal = less side effects to the skin or tissue BUT still doing it's job
= patient happy because no lumps   

love to all Miaki

Hey Guys,

I agree with Miaki....try using a 20ml syringe and more water....You do get less lumps....I have been doing this for some time now and it does help with the lumps...Also longer needles are alittle bit better than the short ones....


Take care all
Smurfette

More water = less concentrated desferal = less side effects to the skin or tissue BUT still doing it's job
= patient happy because no lumps   

I don't know about using more water? My experience when I was doing DFO is that less water is better, because the tissues have less fluid to deal with. But, the thing that really helped for me was using saline instead of pure water. For whatever reasons, the body absorbed the saline water better than pure water, with significantly lower/less painful lumps.

Thanks to Dr Aggarwal for that suggestion.

I agree with Miaki....try using a 20ml syringe and more water....You do get less lumps....I have been doing this for some time now and it does help with the lumps...Also longer needles are alittle bit better than the short ones....

But I am. I'm using the Chrono pump, 20ml syringe ones so I always fill with 19ml of water, so when it dilutes the desferal, it becomes 20ml. This 20ml, I usually run it over 18 hrs. Sometimes more, sometimes less. What I try to do most of the time is after that 18 hrs or so, without taking the needle out, I top my syringe up with more desferal and leave it for another 18 or so hrs. This way, longer desferal infusion, less pricks. Longer lasting bump though.... but still tolerable.

There was this time when I kinda accidently inserted the butterfly needle deeper than usual *ouch*, I noticed that there was no bump. I think the desferal is infused deeper into the tissues so the cause for no bump. It hurts slightly more, but... u know... u give some u take some...

Hi,
I just asked for opinions on needle length on another post, and then right after that, I saw all these posts about needle length. Anyway, I a use 6mm thumbtack and asked on the other post if anyone is using that short of a needle? It seems like most are prefer a longer needle. I may have to try it. Thanks, Jean

I actually prefer the shorter thumbtack type of needle (thalaset). Because I sometimes wear my pump to work and I run around at work, so the thalaset gives me more ease of movement. Doesn't hurt as much when I move about.

I a use 6mm thumbtack and asked on the other post if anyone is using that short of a needle? It seems like most are prefer a longer needle. I may have to try it. Thanks, Jean

Hi Jean and Miaki,
                       I am convinced that I have to try these 90^o needles because in my last Desferal session, the doctor inserted the butterfly too deep and at the end after removing it, I started to bleed. May be he hit a vein or something. I guess these smaller needles would go just to the right place(Sub-Q layer).

But the question is that; I have seen a couple of sites selling these neddles with different needle length (4mm, 6mm, 9mm and 1.2 cm) so, how do I know which one to order? I am thin built, maybe I should order 4mm
but what if starts leaking like Danielle said!

There should be a way to determine the correct needle length for you by the pinch size you get when you umm... pinch the skin?!?!

The Thumbtack/Thal Set I have are 10 mm (They are known to be the "long one's")  I stopped using Thal Set after I got a serious skin infection which looked like an abysses.  I agree they hurt less than butterflies but they aren't deep enough for me so I get more lumps and redness in the end.

I prefer to use a Butterfly/Winged Infusion Set which are 19 mm's .  With the longer butterflies I find I don't get as many lumps and soreness as it does deeper. 

I mix my Desferal with a 20 ml syringe using 10 mls of water (water not saline "Saline was giving me skin irritation").  I'm lucky that my pump fits a 20 mls syringe so I can have the complete 10 mls of water as I find the 10 mls water plus Desferal don't fit well in a 10 mls syringe.   This runs for about 8 hours at night.

I was also told it's better to have more water as the Desferal goes further around the body.  The more concentrated, the larger the lumps tend to be as Desferal will sit in under the skin longer.  These lumps also tend to stay longer.

I was also told it's better to have more water as the Desferal goes further around the body.  The more concentrated, the larger the lumps tend to be as Desferal will sit in under the skin longer.  These lumps also tend to stay longer.

Weird, I was told the exact opposite by my doctor ....

I was told to do the following with those long lasting lumps under the skin. Next time your in the shower or enjoying a nice warm bath, with your index finger and middle fingers together massage in a circular motion  the site and the lump will slowly disolve. 

Miaki

Thanks for the tip, Miaki. I'm going to try it because I get them often.  Jean