Help! My sister is in Pain

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Offline kimi

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Help! My sister is in Pain
« on: March 26, 2008, 03:06:38 AM »


Hello,

I am new to this group and I hope that someone can help me. I am B Thal Minor and my sister, Chere', is B Thal Major. She has been taking medication for pain caused by her sickness since 1999. She is now 30 years old, and has had her spline and gaul blatter removed. She is dependent on her meds and blood transfusions. Her doctor's have prescribed Morphine, Oxycotine and Oxycodine in the past and recently she began taking Darvocet and Percocet. The side affects of the medication has totally robbed her of her outgoing lifestyle and nature. She is constantly in pain, and I believe that her body is now dependent on the meds and the worries about the medicine is now outweighing our worries about her sickness. The doctors have focused her treatment on pain management, and not treatment of her actual sickness. She gets blood transfusions, and has been in Iron overload a few times....but for the most part they just keep giving her meds to keep her "comfortable". I don't believe her sickness is to the point were she needs these types of medicines, it's just that they started her on these meds a while ago and she built a tolerance so she now needs them for pain. We have thought about putting her in rehab, but I am unsure of how that will help her because she is dependent but not addicted to the meds. She takes them for pain and not to abuse them....but with these meds we don't want "abuse" to begin to occur being as though they are VERY addictive.

Therefoe, are there any other meds out there that can treat her Thal Major and her pain? Does anyone know anything about Medical Cannibus? I am honestly willing to consider every alternative, because I DON'T WANT TO LOSE MY SISTER! And I feel like she is slipping away and losing hope. She's been sick for ~ 11 years since she was 19 and I think the medicine, and not the illness, is what' holding her back. She has been ridiculled and treated badly by doctor's in the past for her dependency on the meds and there are few ppl in our home state that truely understand her illness. PLEASE HELP ME.

Kimi ???
......I am my sister's keeper.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 03:15:07 AM »
Hi Kimi,

Where is your sister getting treated?

What type of pain is she having? What is causing it? Is it bone pain? It will be very hard to reduce the pain medications if her pain is still severe, so the cause of the pain needs to be addressed first.
Andy

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Offline §ãJ¡Ð ساجد

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 05:29:15 AM »
Hi Kimi,
:welcome to the site.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister. Can you tell us more about the pain she suffers and what do the doctors say about it. Mostly Thal. is a pain less disorder (except for the needles part  :biggrin )

What do the doctors say about the possibility of Sickle Cell Anemia?
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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 11:26:35 AM »
Hi Kimi & welcome,
sorry to hear of your sister's situation & pain,from reading your post is your sister in pain from the iron overload? is that what u meant?
oxycotine is a strong & addictive pain reliever and shouldnt be used long term from my knowledge (but check with a doctor/someone who knows more about it) my sibling was on oxycotine & i know its a powerfull.addictive tablet.It took years for him to get off them as he oringally took them for bone fractures.your sister needs support from doctors & family.Take care & i wish u & your sister all the best.

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Offline kimi

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 11:51:29 PM »
Thanks for your replys....

My sister is receiving treatment in North Carolina. She has been to Duke and Greenville Medical Center for treatment. She also visited a center in Atlanta Georgia. She first received treatment when she was born, until she was ~ 8. Then she didn't really have any Thal problems, until she was about 19 years old. She participated in a high school Jr. Miss padgent and experienced joint pain while working out. She went back to the Dr. in Greenville and they said that her Thal was the problem and they started her on treatment. In the beginning she just took Hydroxy-Urea and Folic Acid, but when she was 22 (a junior in collge) she got worse and started blood transfutions. Later that year she had her spleen and gall blatter removed. I don't know why they started giving her pain meds exactly. She has a rare form of Thal that "looks" like Sickle Cell but it is not. I think it is B Thal (h) or (s) B Thal, I'm not sure. She has B Thal Intermedia/Major w/ sickled cells. She relies on Blood Transfusions for treatment and has experienced Iron overload because of them. I think she has the blood transfusions when her blood count is extremely low. I also think the meds might make this worse. Do you know anything about that? 

So b/c of this confusion they treated her for Sickle Cell Anemia at Duke and in Greenville for a long time. Maybe her pain came from joint issues in the begining and they gave her these meds. But like I said previously....her pain is not only from her Thal now...it's from the meds. THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM TO HER IN THE FIRST PLACE. I don't think they don't really understand Thal in North Carolina, so they thought it was Sickle Cell and treated her like a Sickle Cell patient and not a Thal patient.

[Please note: North Carolina is #3 in the nation in over prescribing Morphine and other hard meds for pain treatment.]

We just want to get her off of these hard meds and back on track with treating her Thal. The meds are making it harder to get to the root issue, and they are hell on her body.

If you have any advice on what we can do, please let me know. It is really affecting my family and her quality of life. She is depressed b/c she has spent her youth dealing with this issue. I FEEL LIKE SHE HAS BEEN ROBBED OF THE BEST YEARS OF HER LIFE. It's been like this since she was 19 and now she's 30. My heart hurts for her and I want to do everything I can to help her, even if it involves moving her someplace where people understand Thalassemia.

Thanks and God Bless.

kimi  :-\
......I am my sister's keeper.

Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2008, 10:54:52 AM »
hi again kimi,
Does your sister have thal intermedia? perhaps  andy or someone else may be able to shed some more light from your post.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2008, 08:01:52 PM »
Hi Kimi,

It does sound like HbS beta thal, which has symptoms very much like sickle cell disease. The sickling crises can be very painful and I have to agree with you that the painkiller approach has been far overdone in your sister's case. I do think that she needs to discuss this with her doctor and see if the doctor will agree to wean her off the painkillers. Blood exchange is sometimes used to dilute the amount of sickle cells in the blood, which lessens the severity of the crisis. I would also recommend that she try the wheatgrass extract from wheatgrassactive.com . It has shown some ability to reduce the severity and frequency of sickling crises in some patients. It can also help with energy levels and improve to the general health.

You mentioned she had gone to Duke medical center. I have heard good things about treatment there before. If this is not the doctor she has seen there, please have your sister contact her. I do believe that better care is available but a complete understanding of your sister's condition is necessary.


Laura M. De Castro, MD
Clinical Director Duke Adult
Comprehensive Sickle Cell Center
DUKE UNVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER
DUMC Box 3939
Durham, NC  27710
(919) 684-6464  Office
(919) 681-6174  Fax
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline kimi

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 05:42:15 AM »
Hi Andy!

Actually, Dr. DeCastro was my sister's doctor. Though she is a wonderful doctor, she was actually the first to prescribe oxycotine and oxycodone to my sister. She started her on these hard meds because my sister's pain started to get worse and she became tolerant of the other pain meds. To her credit, Dr. DeCastro was the only doctor who continued to refute the "Sicle Cell Disease" treatment, but she also didn't understand why Chere' was in so much pain b/c Thals usually dont have that sort of pain. She was very thourogh and I believe she only wanted Chere' to take the meds for a short while. Chere' didn't like the meds and my family started to see how they were affecting her, so she move back home after collge and started going back to Greenville for treatment. But unfortunately they continued her on these meds and that's when they were OVER prescribed and things got out of hand.

I will tell her about the Wheatgrass extract. Is it a liquid? If you know of any other natural remedies, please let me know. The "pain disorder" that's associated with Chere's HbS Thal is quite confusing and I've never heard of another case like it, have you? If so please let me know so we can see what other individuals have done to treat their pain.

Thanks everyone.

kimi :hugfriend
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 06:11:10 AM by kimi »
......I am my sister's keeper.

Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 01:13:25 PM »
I don't mean this in a rude way but maybe your sister has become an addict?  If so she needs to see someone to address this issue.

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Offline kimi

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 04:18:17 AM »
Yes Polly that was rude.....
......I am my sister's keeper.

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Offline §ãJ¡Ð ساجد

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2008, 10:26:43 AM »
Calm down Kimi,

She said that she doesn't mean it in a rude way. What I think is that she meant that there are some medicine that have the reputation of being addicted by like some pain killers and asthma medicine. I myself have an observation about it. My nephew and I am asthmatic; I however have learned to control my condition just by will power and have not taken any medicine for more than about a year while my nephew (who is just a kid) keeps taking his medicine all the time.

I'm not saying to stop taking medicine at all; but you can prevent excessive medication if it can be cured without using them in some cases.
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Offline Angel123

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2008, 12:29:45 PM »
Kimi,
The most important part of a problem is identifying what the problem is. I also have a friend who started off taking prescription tablets for pain when she had surgery and had a real hard time getting off it simply because she never wanted to admit that she has a problem.

please dont react to the statemnet Polly made, the first thing is being honest and understanding what the problems are. Thalassaemia does not actually cause pain, most of the condition is silent apart from the endless pokes and sticks the patients endure. Iron although it can kill you, creeps up on you and the patient is not really aware of it until they get their ferritin and biopsy results. Of course there are twinges with the bone but for most its just living with the condition.

From what I have seen and read, it is very difficult for the patients to live with this condition but you know what, your sister has to actually admit that she has a problem before she can actually get help. i also think that its is great that you and your family members are fully supporting her but you too also have to recognise what the real problem is and get help for that.

Please dont think that I am just being harsh, but I dont think that anyone who is addicted to any substance be it prescription or otherwise actually voluntarily go that route- its always to combat a present problem that stretches into even bigger ones.

You sister is lucky to have you by her side but you have to take steps to either get rid of the painkillers or find the root cause of the pain.

I hope that you find your solution, maybe you can put it in prayer as well.
Sammy
[Sammy

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2008, 05:11:12 AM »
 :referee  Please do not characterize patients as addicts. The word has such a negative connotation and conjures up such stereotypical images. Both thalassemia and sickle cell anemia have long histories of being seen as a stigma, and patients and carriers have had to hide their status to avoid being ostracized by their communities. Adding to this stigma by labeling one an addict for doing no more than using the medication that the patient has been instructed to take as treatment, gives a completely wrong connotation to why the patient is using the medicine and only adds to the stigmatization of the patient. Unfortunately, this stigmatization goes beyond the community and reaches right into the medical community, often adversely affecting the treatment of the patients. Kimi has already established that these drugs have been pushed on her sister by the doctors, as treatment for her pain. As difficult as it may be to accept, this is actually a common treatment for sickling crises. Not only are the painkillers prescribed during a crisis but they are often pushed on patients even when they are not experiencing pain, because the pain may come back. If you care to read through this study at http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=28137  you will get a much better understanding of how this happens.

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The relation between patients with sickle cell disease and hospital services is one of several major non-clinical dimensions shaping experiences of pain management and behaviour for seeking health care. Experiences of hospital care show a range of interrelated themes, which are common to most participants across variables of sex, ethnicity, and hospital attended: mistrust of patients with sickle cell disease; stigmatisation; excessive control (including both over- and undertreatment of pain)and neglect.

Sickle cell beta thalassemia can range in severity from mild to severe, with symptoms identical to sickle cell disease. 44 of the 57 patients in this study were HbS beta thals. When you read through the patient quotes, you quickly see a pattern of over treatment with painkillers and I get the impression this is done partly because it is easy and the patients can be basically be brushed off by loading them with painkillers. Addict implies some degree of responsibility of the patient in their dependency on painkillers but it is actually a combination of the need to treat the pain of sickling crises and the over medication by so many caregivers. There are quotes here from patients who were told to take tablets without even being told what they were taking. And truthfully, how many patients in any hospital will say no when told to take a pill? Patients are at the mercy of caregivers when hospitalized, which is common for these crises. Because of the very real pain involved in this condition it isn't so easy to take a patient off of painkillers, especially when they have been the long term treatment for the condition. Admitting one has a problem with drugs won't do much for one who is being regularly treated with these drugs for sickle cell thal. It is obvious that this condition is not being treated as best as it could be by many hospitals but is that the fault of the patients and should the patients be labeled as a result? Perhaps it would be better to label these caregivers as drug pushers. I would not agree that patients should be given painkillers until all other treatments such as blood exchange have been utilized, but even then, painkillers will often be necessary.

I would also like to mention that the side effects of thalassemia can and do cause excruciating pain for many patients. The founder of this group was one of them. Lisa suffered from osteoporosis that slowly made her bones crumble. The pain she was in during the last year of her life was immense and her bones got so bad that they broke just by being moved in bed. Her doctor also broke three ribs just by examining her chest. Lisa was in unbelievable pain and to watch her was one of the hardest things I have done in my life. When she came to visit me I would walk with her to her car when she left with my arm around her to help support her because her legs were so weak. She told me many times that she felt like an old woman. Lisa was on very heavy pain medication regularly and in the hospital they gave her everything they could and the pain was still unbearable. I would hate to think how bad it would've been without the painkillers. She was on them for a long time. Did that make her an addict? Absolutely not.

Kimi's sister has a painful chronic condition that is routinely treated with painkillers. This is a far more complex issue than some addict who needs to kick a drug habit. In my opinion, the only thing that will reduce her dependence is better treatment for her when she has a crisis. Her treatment has not been the comprehensive care she was getting with Dr De Castro and most likely nothing is going to change for her unless she can get back into that quality of a treatment program.

In the meantime, please try to refrain from adding to the stigma that so many patients already have to endure. And if you need a better understanding of the constant stigma many thals still live with, talk to the Maldivian boys or an Indian woman. Ask them how many parents would let their child marry one of them. And this takes place throughout the world. One mission of our group is to educate people so that stigma will be lifted. I hope within our group we can have more understanding and sensitivity.

Sajid, willpower will not open the airways in your lungs during an asthma attack. It is possible to reduce the panic which can worsen an attack by relaxing and calming oneself but asthma is a physical condition that can kill and one should be aware of the possible outcome of severe attacks. I learned yoga deep breathing techniques many years ago and while this can help relax me, no matter how deeply I breathe it does not affect the inability of my lungs to inhale and exhale. The drug, albuterol does. Even though I seldom have an attack, I carry my inhaler everywhere I go because if I do have an attack, and they can come with no warning, albuterol will keep me out of danger. My son almost died from asthma when he was three. His carbon dioxide level was triple normal, over 50, and if not for prednisone, he would not be alive today. Saying you can overcome asthma with willpower is no different than saying you can overcome thal with willpower. They can both kill, but they can also be treated. The danger of an asthma attack should never be underestimated.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Danielle

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2008, 06:10:34 AM »
I absolutely agree with everything you said, Andy.

A large number of Thals, including myself, experience severe bone pain, that can be relentless at times. Many of us have a tolerance for medications, and therefore may need stronger meds or higher doses.  When we have pain, most of the time a "Tylenol" or "Advil" won't cut it.

I cannot tell you how many times I have been called an addict by a doctor or nurse in the hospital, because I needed very strong doses of intravenous pain medication after one of my many surgeries, instead of the small dose pills they normally give out.  It's not because I'm a drug addict and wanted the pain medication, it's because I needed it to be free of pain.

I've also been admitted into the hospital several times for microfractures in my back due to osteoporosis, and the three herniated disks that I have in my neck that pinch on nerves, and all those times I needed very high doses of intravenous Morphine, Dilauded, or Fentanyl to try and keep me comfortable.  Even then, with that kind of medication, I was still in severe pain.  However, I was continuously told that I "may have a drug problem."   :rolleyes

When I went to nursing school, we were taught that "the patient's pain is what they say it is and not what you think it is."  We were taught to medicate them without judgment, and give them the benefit of the doubt.  We cannot tell someone what kind of pain they are experiencing.  That's completely absurd.  I hope that schools are educating these doctors and nurses better these days, because pain management has become a huge thing.  These old school medical professionals need to be re-educated, or keep up with their CEU's (Continuing Education Units) on pain management, especially with disorders like Sickle Cell and Thalassemia.  I truly believe that education is the key to ultimately silencing this stigma.

I'll never forget the one doctor that actually believed me when I was crying in pain with my back.  I was on the highest dose of intravenous Morphine a person could have without killing them, and I was looking this doctor straight in the eye, telling him how much pain I was in.  He looked at me and said, "I believe you.  You definitely have an unbelievable tolerance ... because no human being would still be alert and oriented with the amount of medication that you have in your body right now."

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Offline §ãJ¡Ð ساجد

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Re: Help! My sister is in Pain
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2008, 08:11:49 AM »
Yes, Andy you are right.

Even I do carry my Inhaler with me all the time because you never know when it will be too much to tolerate the attack. I was just worried about my nephew that he takes it way too much. He even needs it when laughing watching cartoons :biggrin We never prevent him to take the inhaler. I just thought as a person grows, he/she will grow out the need of the medicine. It's not an addiction; just maybe the body can overcome if you want. I guess this is not always the case. :dunno
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